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ways to promote MG?

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what are some good, non-spammy ways to promote MG?

any sites you guys can think of or other forums that would attract the experimental variety or highly advanced variety of players?

I say highly advanced because I think when you get to a point and have been teaching guitar for awhile you tend to want something really new sounding

I know there are tons of guitarists in the real world willing to completely drop 12 and go to something new. This seems dramatic, but everyone I meet at the guitar stores I walk into want one or are interested enough to play it, and ask tons of questions. I think for this reason something like 19, 22, 24, 26, or 31 would be good for starter guitars as the fifths aren't completely destroyed, and let's face it, it's all most weekend-warrior guitar types know. There's also that number of guitarists who hate fifths and want to avoid using them because they sound generic and theyre sick of cycles of fifths...

anyways.... everyone likes micro besides maybe a handful of internet critics who don't really matter. People are ready and they need to know! _R

Hi Ron. I've already posted about this forum at (lots of interest), (fretless guitar forum), Yahoo MMM, I'll probably also post at (there are a few micro bassists there), and the Yahoo Tuning List and Just Intonation groups.

The experimental music forum has a micro subforum here: but I'm not a member.


 Microtones are readily available on guitars that people already have. And when the standard 12 frets per octave doesn't cut it, I'll use the ultimate microtonal guitar; the fretless.

I think I somehow messed up your post trying to quote it and failing miserably. im going to try to get it fixed back - here's my reply about fretless.

I agree that people should use slides to  hear the more in tune intervals, but I dont think fretless is by any means the ultimate. Its a misconception I think alot of people have about microtonality and specifically xentonality. If you wanted for example to make a progression that moves up and down a Fokker lattice, using vertical harmony in the 13-limit, there is no way of getting it perfect JI, while a fretted instrument it would be closer if not near perfect, plus all the sustain is there. This was in an essay I wrote for this site when it first started, which was serving to educate common microtonal misconceptions about harmony I read posted by the general user at (the anti-academic, anti-intellectual guitar forum).

While I think fretless would be good for playing warping MOS music, and moving across generators, I don't think anyone has or will utilize this as such besides Stephen Taylor.

the idea is, if you want to build in tune vertical harmony triads and move down a lattice changing one note at a time in say 7 or 11 limit maybe 22 would interest you..  Paul Erlich was the first to show me how to use lattices, although I had seen them online and knew they were extremely useful and used by the best theorists to describe whats happening in a temperament. It wasn't until the Bohlen Pierce tuning symposium last year I actually got around to using one and seeing the true benefits of lattices in depth.

Heres a clip from Paul's lecture where we played "diatonic" triads on guitar and keyboard (fretted and tuned to Bohlen Pierce) moving down a lattice in the Bohlen-Pierce scale which is a non-octave scale without even partials based on 3:5:7:9 JI).  This is a clip of his 45 min lecture and the example starts 1/2 way in.

anyways fretless can mimic any scale melodically and if the fourths are tuned or altered from standard tuning that is a way to get closer to achieving intonation in say Magic temperament (a scale ive never heard a fretless player play in). Unfortunately most people are limited technically on fretless because they never learn scale inversions obviously because of how insane it is etc.. I had an idea awhile back to make a fretless book based on every MOS from standard Eadgbe tuning when I heard there was a teacher at Berklee who taught fretless but didn't play in higher prime harmonies.
Anyways I visited your site and did like the fretless stuff you have up.

Thanks for checking some of my stuff out, glad you enjoyed it.

As far as intonation and sustain and all things fretless. I consider the fretless guitar to be the best choice, microtonally and 12tet, due to its ability to go in and out of any system: equal or not. I've often thought of getting a 19TET neck, or even a 12 Tone Ultra Plus from freenote, but have decided against doing such because of the limitations. I want JI notes on more than just every other fret, and while 19 is a wonderful system, I'm locked into it. Yes the same could be said about my 12TET guitars, but as a teacher--and a musician (though I don't often play with other musicians) I prefer the ability to share a language that most musicians speak. The fretless allows me to do this while going in and out of systems. On a fretless, I can play with a piano player, and then play the Archetyes Enharmonic scale if I'd like. Since my microtonality is mostly based in JI, the fretless guitar's ability to transpose different keys is a crucial factor--and again the fact that I can choose my intervals and notes on the fly. Sustain and intonation are down to two factors; the setup and materials, and the player. In nearly 5 years of playing the fretless guitar, there are No problems with sustain, and there are no problems with intonation. When I first picked up the fretless it sounded worse than a dying cat, but after considerable practice, and knowledge about setups, there are no issues. I can achieve perfect sustain with vibrato techniques, and nail-stop techniques. Intonation again is up to the player. The guitar (with frets) sets us up for a bad position in which we don't actually listen to our notes (thus the obsession with Tablature) unlike a violinist or cellist who is always listening to the notes. This is key to playing the fretless in tune and well. I have played with many different musicians, in different styles, and not once was I ostracized for playing fretless. I had more issues over the fact that I had a seven string guitar and preferred to play my notes at a quick tempo, than anything else. Since the initial learning curve of the fretless, there are no problems.

I will also comment on something I've seen occur here on this forum, and something which I think is detrimental on a whole number of levels. This thread is the second time I've seen words hurled at SevenString[dot]Org-- and I sincerely hope this forum won't turn into a sonic dick measuring contest.

I have often thought of those who look down on Microtones as ignorant, but I feel that many microtonalists harbor a great deal of arrogance; something I too am admittedly guilty of at times. If we want to promote microtonality for the guitar or otherwise, we're not going to get anywhere by calling people 'anti-academic' or 'anti-intellectual'. While I agree that a lot of guys on SS.Org are a bit ignorant in some aspects (more in their political forum than anything else) how can you blame them? They go to school and learn of 12 tones, they turn on the TV and hear commercials with music based on 12TET, etc. This is like only hearing English your whole life, then hearing Latin and saying "It's not English"

Music, regardless of how many notes you have in an octave, should not be a tool used to put others down--especially when you're using a system that is unfamiliar and can sound strange at first. 

This has been, in my opinion, the single greatest thing holding microtonality back; this 'holier than thou' attitude which serves no one any good--only creates more separation. 


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